Part 1 : Rock Magnets | Part 2: Conspiracy | Part 3: Reverse Engineering

for those of you who punted.. he's "discussing" "they mystery of the Sphinx"

oo. Gotta see this.

Can you disprove that the Sphinx materialized out of a random collection of sand?

for those of you who just read the end of my message, here it is again: did anyone out there see Unsolved Mysteries last night at 9pm?? I know it is on during Melrose place, but that took precedence that night because they talked about the mystery of the Sphinx for an hour,

They found that it is dated back to 10,000 years ago, which is way before the Egyptians were there (there was found to be errosion trivially matched to that of a typical errosion of that kind of rock, which means that there was a lot of rain after it was built, and there wasn't any significant rainfall in that area to create the type of errosion it had unless you go back 9 to 10 thousand years), so the mystery still remains, who built the pyramid? Could be a lost civilization (which there is completely no evidence so far of such an existence) that was highly advanced and built the Sphinx. since that option is hard to believe, the only other viable option is that it was built by extra-terrestrials, unless evidence can be found of a lost civilization. This is logical, disprove what I just said.

They found that there is a hidden chamber underneath the Sphinx which they are trying to get permission to dig to to see what is in it that might unlock the secret

(for those joining late, "those of you who just read the end of my message" is me)

that is trivially shown to be very unlikely to shape it into the detail that we are familiar with (lion and face of a man), so we can pretty much discard that option

Well, to be technical, the sonic readings did NOT show a chamber; they showed a rectangular area of more dense material.

Why is it hard to believe in an ancient civilization but easy to believe in aliens?

unlikely, but possible. same as the alien theory.

because there is absolutely no proof so far of ancient lost civilizations, but there is for the possibility of existence of e.t.'s (at least a better chance)

That same logic dictates that Gilgamesh is an epic poem about a Mesopotemian king meeting a space alien babe

*cough*bullshit*cough*

in my logical path, I take those that have a greater chance of occuring and disregarding highly unlikely paths (like .00001 chance of occuring)

Our logical paths seem to have diverged.

OK, I buy that explanation of your logic. It's your probability assignments that I have a problem with...

it is possible that many religions, Gods, Pharoes, and fairly tales are descriptions of visits with aliens or trips that they brought them on

And why is the "aliens visiting us thousands of years before they would have any reason to target earth for their bizarre plans" more logical then "humanity is older than we thought"?

I find it more likely that 1000 out of work sand sculpture artists spent all the spare time int heir lives making the sphinx than the theory than aliens came down and contructed a huge stone cat int eh desert.

by the way, if you believe that the face on Mars is artificially formed, I can show you the book I read called The Monuments of Mars that show that if you take one side of the face and copy it to the other, you can see the face of a human-like creature, and then if you take the other side and copy it, you get a lion, trully remarkable, I can show you how they did it if you want

It was also interesting on the show how the compared weathering of rock by rain to weathering by wind....but never weathering by wind-blown sand.

I am pretty sure the wind blowing included the wind blowing the sand on the rock also, which was shown in the computer model simulation

It's natural for humans to see our "images" in natural formations. Be it rocks on Mars, clouds, or potato chips, we liken random patterns to something familiar to us - like a human face. It doesn't mean that aliens/ancient humans built rock formations on Mars, clouds, or potato chips as proof of their existence. It's called the random forces of nature.

interesting that if that is true about the face on Mars representing half human half lion, the Sphinx has the same concept, the body of a lion and the face of man, interesting connection

yes , but the "random" formations noted in the book are more than just random, they stand out with very interesting properties and the chance of them being created non-artificially with the relationships it has is very unlikely

Unless somebody lands on Mars and examines the so-called face and provides evidence that it was carved and is not just a big pile of rocks, there IS NO FACE ON MARS

once again, read the book, Monuments of Mars by Richard Hoagland

I am not going to repeat every mathemetical and intersting things there are about the face on mars and the pyramids on mars

Hey, I believe aliens walked the earth 10,000 years ago. In fact, I'm reading one of their documents on Vector Product Format right now that they left behind.

Or is that DARPA? I always get the two confused.

this doesn't make me 100% sure that it is artificial, but he definitely presents a good argument that it is close to 100%

Fine. Take a million photos of Mars. Lots of rocks. If you can't see some sort of shape based on something we have on earth in at least 25% (probably a lot more), there's something horribly wrong with your imagination. But they're still just rocks.

DARPA gives us money. Aliens give us cheez-whiz.

I found more holes in the arguments on the show last night then in a block of Swiss Cheese.

No, wait, I can prove aliens wrote this. Who else would title a chapter "Reality according to VPF"

that argument has been used many times, and pretty much shown to be invalid,

Should I ask his opinions about the Mars Observer? I'm kind of afraid to...

(proof: cheez-whiz is clearly an artificial substance. It's gross, so no numan would make it. Therefore, it must have been made by aliens)

give me the holes then, I would like to know

What, the argument that their logic wasn't sound?

How is that invalid?

of course you found holes. they didn't show all thier evidence. to get that you have to buy the videotape they advertised for at the end

Do you think that the Mars Observer was destroyed by aliens attempting to protect the sanctity of The Face?

:)

wrong, you can't say that it is not artificial, or it is, just because we haven't visited the face does not mean you can assume by default that it is not artificial

yes, quite possibly

Well, why would aliens put something like a face on Mars that would make us want to go there and then shoot us down so we can't discover it?

Yes, I can say it is artificial. I can also say that it is real. But reality points to the artificial argument.

I'm still awaiting a response to cheez-whiz.

I totally agree with you. I also have doubts about Spam and Jell-o

maybe they know that we are figuring out that possibly it is artificial from Viking pictures, but they don't want us to know what is going on quite yet, which is why they are not letting us actually visit the face to verify it's artificial

Oops, no wonder, I forgot to append the magic Latin word "QED" (which, of course, means, "I know I'm right, and if you don't agree, then fuck off.")

Explain to me the rock formations in caves, deserts, and pretty much all over the world, that look like humans or horses or castles. Were they made by aliens, or is it just weathering and calcium in water that made it?

You're awfully willing to make assumptions about what non-humans want.

Uh, I made them all. It's a hobby, you see...

Or maybe the probes were just badly made.

don't you think that is a possibility? That they exist and have been visiting us for a LONG time and they don't want us to know 100% about them until a certain time when they feel that it is the right time and we can handle the shock?

If I were a non human, I'd want LOTS of huge human-cats carved in stone on EVERY planet.

That they exist and have been visiting us for a LONG time and they don't want us to know 100% about them until a certain time when they feel that it is the right time and we can handle the shock?

If they were here that early in humanity's history, why wouldn't they let us know about them then so we'd be used to their presence when we became technologically adept?

hey, reruns are no fair

I figure they don't want us to positively know because we'd try and build new and better weapons and then conquer them on general principles.

I think they represent a phenomenal, untapped market. Hey, if they're sphinx-like, then they have four armpits. That's twice as much deoderant in one day they must go through!

who says we're technologically adept?

Frankly, if that's your idea of alien motivations, you don't read enough science fiction.

like I said before, it is more than just the face, there are other interesting artifacts that look artificially made like the pyramids, and all within a 50 mile radius (or less, I forgot), and there are very interesting mathematical relationships besides them just looking like something we are familiar with and correspond to specific latitudes and longiuteds of mysterious objects like the Sphinx and Pyramid here on Earth, very interesting, read the book first before giving your full opinion, it just makes sense to do that

Or maybe they're did come and are just sleeping in the sunken lands of R'lyeh and Mu, hiding in the Mountains of Madness down at the Antarctic. Yes, the documents have been published - they're in the Necronomicon and Pnakotic Manuscripts for instance. It's been published and it's plausible, so it HAS to be true.

Yeah... why do we have two armpits and only one leg pit, John?

Volcanoes and mountains also tend to look like pyramids when viewed from above.

Er, longitude is a totally arbitrary concept.
Unless you think aliens chose where we would build Greenwich.

they don't have clear edges with equal angles though

A popular mainstream theory about that is that early civilization started in the fertile crescent and spread outward. Pretty radical, but hey...

Assume earth had little/no atmosphere. Assume you were viewing it from several million miles away. Assume there was no humanity or living things on it, assume it was a completely dead planet, no living entity had ever been there in all of time. I could still find "proof" that beings had visited it.

and it is not that there is a huge mountain range where the face and pyramids are on Mars where you can "make out anything your imaginatino wants you to", it is fairly flat in that area and then all of a sudden these mysterious things pop up at you, so there is a greater chance that they are artificial in just that sense (although not significantly better chance)

Is aw2s a real person or an A.I. simulation?
I'm starting to wonder.

So shadows passing over rocks on another planet is proof of aliens. Fine, I give in. You win. Aliens built Mars. The face is there as a trap to lure our space ships there for target practice.

I think he would lose a turing test.

once again, you people are discounting the possibility that we have some very important relationship with these aliens and that is why they are visiting us and put monuments on Mars that we are familiar with

I still think we can mold him into a McElwaine.

He needs to practice his caps-lock, though.

aw2s: The whole area is flat, except for these face-like formations. This proves they were artificially formed.

most others: You are seeing mountains, and your imagination guides you to form recognizable patterns.

aw2s: But there are no mountains! Just these bits that stick up...

There's a flaw in this logic...

And you're discounting the fact that we might NOT have any connection with anything.

no, I considered that it it wouldn't fit the mysterious that I have thought about , higher probability once again in my favor

Wow... Sam G. being sucked into a zephyr conversation. This is impressive.

Something's high here, and it's not probability.

it is not just shadow pictures, buddy, they took different sun angle pictures of the area if you bothered to look at the Viking photos

I think we're back to the probability assignment problem again. Plus, my heuristics for correcting spelling errors seem to have trouble when entirely different, correctly spelled words are formed. Time for a little fine-tuning on my brain...

who's this be24 luser, and does he realize i'll sue him for parody of my former sig?

what is wrong with my logic about no mountain range in Mars, that discounts the chance of being able to make out just anything from a mountain range

oh shit. i was bored one day and created sam greenfield. now i feel responsible for this whole mars fiasco

I've seen viking photos.
I've seen that photo.
It looks like a really indistinct face-kinda thing w/ a lot of shadows.
Wheeeeeeeeeeee....

All the photos I've seen have been from one sun angle.

once again,you did not see all of the photos of the Cydonia region besides the face

I categorically deny the rumors that I created bbz.

The problem with your logic is that it's based upon the flawed assumption that every rock outcropping is artificial.

I can bring in the book sometime and show you the pictures, or you can get a couple of them from ftp phoenix.oulu.fi in the pub/ufo_and_space pics directory

If I ever come across this Hoax^Hgland book, I will flip through looking for photos I haven't seen before. However, I don't think the theory is worth acutally going out and looking.

shit, I've degenerated into refuting bogus logic
time to revert to pathological responses

FTP I can handle. Pls wait...

Oops, silly me. No, I said it would be kinda nice to examine the so-called faces and pyramids up close to look for any signs of being carvings.

Until then, I'll still think that they're artificial.

hey, how do you know that you're the only human, and everyone around you is an alien?!

I am an alien agent who will kill you if you continue with this banter, aw2s. Or kill me.

huh huh huh
Martians are cool.

like I said before, READ THE BOOK! It shows more than just, wow look at that formation! There are other things about them that help to go to the path that they were formed artificially, you are being ignorant in not seeing this other evidence besides just looking at the one picture you are familiar with

that's it.

But if the pictures are in print, they must be accurate. It would be *wrong* to forge a picture.

Yep, I'm ignorant. A rock millions of miles away is a rock millions of miles away is a rock millions of miles away.

He reminds me more of Ludwig than McElwaine. The only conspiracy he sees that's not a conspiracy of ignorance is the incredible space alien coverup.

that theory might be right about us being aliens, but that visa-versa argument just helps in my favor

What if we're all just morons and not aliens?

visa-versa?

you are saying that NASA possibly forged those pictures for some purpose? As a joke? That is a little ridiculous, although kind of possible if you consider that it might be a test to see how we will react when they tell us about what is really going on

At first i thought he was more john_-_winston'esque, but I guess j_-_w isn't *paranoid* about aliens...

Hmmm, he could probably be moulded into either.
Let's see which he does first, on his own... random capitalization, or rewording of songs to discuss the incredible alien conspiracy

no, i'm saying the authors of the book forged the pictures, not NASA.

Of course, NASA is part of The Conspiracy in any case...

Why would NASA forge pictures of natural rock croppings?

John Winston? Name's new to me...

NASA has millions of pictures of Mars. They don't need to forge any of them, any more than you'd need to forge a picture of a cloud that looks like Elvis.

you need more rhythm to that,,,
"Of course, NA$A is just ANOTHER PART of the CON$PIRACY."

you saw that cloud too??

Hey, what about the Man on the Moon? EVERYBODY can see that so we don't need pictures.

from alt.alien.visitors. crossposts everything to alt.religion.kibology

I didn't say I believed that theory, just explaining to the person that mentioned that

Gee, I mostly read newsgroups relevent to OS research. Our pet flake is Jesus Monroy.

there's currently a proposal in alt.config for a newsgroup dedicated to discussing net.loonies

If only they could all be confined to one newsgroup.

He's either stunned or preparing something really big.

at least aw2s seems to confine his rantings to 1 instance...

maybe the aliens killed him...

Hell, if only their crossposts could be confined to <5 newsgroups. Have you ever noticed that every topical subset of the various newsgroups has their own pet loony?

It's the Electronic Village Idiot Syndrome.

ELectronic Village Idiot Syndrome

ELectronic Village Idiot Syndrome

I am pretty sure when (if) they get permission to dig to that mysterious cube (probably artificially formed, not natural) underneat the Sphinx, it will be televised, I will await that time

unfortunately, we couldn't get better pictures of the Cydonia region of Mars because of the MO supposedly breaking down because of a transistor (likely story)

I can't believe I missed a good acronym.

This brings us full-circle to Geraldo.

I can't wait for them to dig down and find a big piece of rock.

I mean they spend that much money, and just one transistor doesn't work, and the whole thing goes capooy, that sounds a little doubtful to me considering the technology that thing had given the money they needed to build it

i'm tempted to blow off my 240 exam to keep reading this discussion.

[sigh] I'm sure he'll rant about something else tomorrow...

what would a huge square rock be doing there?

Lying underground, taunting news crews worldwide.

and how do you suppose they lifted those 200 ton rocks? We have trouble doing that with our technolgy!

hrmm... I remember something.. what was it.. oh yeah "O rings"!!

right?

(the blocks used to build the Sphinx)

What would a big rock be doing underground? Not much.

One little transistor not working? That's the current theory with the Mars Probe, particularly because it's been shown to fail in conditions remarkably similar to those they anticipate the Mars probe would encounter between here and there.

what, is there some new electrical storm that wasn't there before because we never had problems at Mars before?

Actually, on either PBS or Discovery channel this summer, there was a very good documentary where people attempted to build a pyramid using the kind of technology they would have several thousand years ago. They were pretty successful, AND they tried all the different ways that have been suggested - some worked, some didn't. It was also well done and intelligently written, unlike some shows I could mention...

No, but it's a new electronic component.

you have been brainwashed into believing them

if you actually believe that cruft about not being able to move 200 ton blocks then i must ignore you.

Look up: simple machines (pullies, wheels, inclines)

No, the thruster burst.

that is a theory, once again, it has not been replicated, they have tried

Of course those workmen on the show last night wouldn't know how to move a 200 ton block; they aren't used to dealing with slave labor.

hmmm... we're all brainwashed...

Hmmm, I haven't been keeping up too much. Too many loonies on sci.space, sci.physics, et al for me to tolerate.

It's a good thing aw2s is the only one that isn't brainwashed. Humanity can be salvaged.

yes, but did they move the blocks at the same weight the blocks were for the great pyramid or the Sphinx, or a scaled down version which is obviously possible and I am aware of

syntax, please.

show me any source that describes this pully system being replicated on 200-250 ton blocks, and I will believe you

so is aw2s really the devil? is this one of satan's evil tricks?

They moved big-ass blocks. I don't remember the exact weights, it was in Julyish. They used ramps, levers, pulleys (in many different ways) and IT WORKED. They basically built a small pyramid (7 layers?) in one month.

i give that a 5% chance that they could have done it like that maybe even 1%

where do you get the 5% figure from?
or did you pull it from your but?

yes, but the weights of the blocks are the important part of the argument, they could have weighed half of those used in the Sphinx and Great Pyramid

A-ha, but it was actually done and not a computer simulation. Of course, it was on TV so PBS could have faked it all (I remember now, it was an episode of Nova I think) and t such, but I highly doubt it.

They could have weighed three times as much. You are pulling assumptions out of your nose.

if anything had to be removed it would be a stick from your ass, pal

Aha, the phase of personal insults.
i vote we give up here.

Yes, but could that stick be removed with simple tools, or would alien intelligence need to be utilized?

the point is, they could have moved the blocks with pullies and whatever, but if they used any more weight (like maybe just a meesly 100 tons more), it wouldn't be possible, so the weights of the blocks do matter a lot

i think aliens put it there

It's certainly pretty clear that intelligence is alien to aw2s.

Give me enough manpower/slavepower and I can move those damn blocks.

listen--give me a proof of why big blocks => immovable.

possibly

Definitely.

possibly

no, possibly
you haven't shown me that it can be done now with the same weight blocks

it is nice to simply say, all you need is a hell of a lot of man power, well if it is that simple, then why haven't they tried it

Well, I guess it's okay for you to not give you proof but god forbig you give us any.

Hard to find slaves these days. That's why we invented bulldozers.

well, you don't need slaves, you just get some people and pay them a little to help move the block if it is that simple after setting up the "pully" system, I mean, come on

well, this is a different type of logic than what we talked about before, so it is ok for me to pry for evidence here

Oh, you want to spend *money* on this.
Give me some.

That's what they did on the Nova show. I'm sorry if they didn't move blocks big enough for your standard. They were attempting to do it for the Great Pyramid, not the Sphinx; they used blocks applicable to the largest in the pyramid at Cheops.

my argument is very difficult to prove given that I can't fly to Mars, but proving that you can move 200 ton blocks using man power is possible to prove

*I* can fly to mars.

i think aw2s is one of those people who watch the program and lie in the middle of a crowded highway

rotfl

We should be so lucky.

Uninteresting. Can you send aw2s to Mars? One-way?

those blocks are no where near is heavy as those used in the great pyramid,that pyramid stands out to be the most advanced constructed, and looks almost too perfect, and the other little ones nearby look like the Egyptians tried to copy the Great Pyramid posbbily built by the aliens and failed, they look a lot messier,

one for sam!

Yeah, it's a pity they proved that the Great Pyramid could be built using technology they had at the time it was built.

I dunno. I lifed one of those block, and one of the ones from the Great Pyramid, and they felt about the same weight to me.

I've already sent him.
Prove I haven't.
You can't.
Therefore I have.

well if this argument is important enough to go on with a proof, then someone who has the money will do the experiment, otherwise I still don't know if it is possible with just man power to move those blocks

i assume you have evidence that aliens landed other thjan paternalistic bullshit

I'd love to be unable to prove it. He would have to have stopped spouting.
He hasn't. Therefore you didn't.

But, should somebody try to move those blocks, an should they fail, it STILL wouldn't rule out that it wasn't done with manpower.

no, they didn't prove it, they didn't try to replicate the exact size and weight of the great pyramid, a small scale version is obviously possible

Sometimes logic just doesn't apply.

That's what bullets are for.

Silly me for thinking that to prove that humans really built the pyramids we'd have to build one of the exact size and shape ourselves. It only takes a couple decades.

do you all think there is some great direct proportion here that if you can move a farily large block with man power, than you can move a much heavier block with a lot more man power. Well that proportion might have a limit where after a certain weight of the block, it just isn't possible that you can move the blocks with more men\

why isn't it?

like I said, some physical proportions have limits

prove it

Like intelligence.

after a certain weight, the proportion might not work and you have to come up with a new theory on how they were moved and lifted

Unfortunately, intelligence is limited. Stupidity isn't.

I don't have to prove this, you have have to

Person a can pull 50 lbs
Person b can pull 50 lbs

person a and person b can pull 100 lbs

laws of physics

You are fond of saying "This is so." When pressed, you clarify "This might be so."

You are unconvicing.

it was more complex than just pulling they had to put them on top of blocks (and neatly too)

So, what you're arguing, is that once an object gets heavy enough, the mathematics starts failing due to overflow problems?

YES!

No, they just sort of put them on there and filled in the cracks.

no, not overflow, but maybe after a certain weight, a pully system can't handle the lifting of these objects, and to build a new pully system , to place it on the blocks for instance might be close to the weight of the block to hold the block on the ramp it must be strong, and how would they put that on top of the block if it is the weight of the block when they can't put the block there by itself without a pully system because it is too heavy

it is not as simple as person A+B if there are certain conditions that must be maintaiened on this "pully" system

Wait for Nova to rerun that show. Watch it. They explain ramp systems and such.

ok, I will try to get a transcript

Hell, buy David McCauley's Pyramid. He gives a convincing argument. With pictures.

Do you think that you might succeed in expressing yourself in sentences that have a discernible subject and predicate?

Actually, I think the special may have been based on that book.

i like the video version of his books better

I think the blocks on the Sphinx are even heavier than the pyramid, did they ever show how those blocks could have been moved?

Actually, I built the pyraminds.
Hey, I was bored.

sphinx != pyramid

No, it was about pyramids.

% zctl punt discuss
Punting <message,discuss,*>
%

Like I said, I hefted a couple, they weren't all that different.

Bigger pulleys, more men. This is an engineering problem, not a scientific one.

Assuming the sizes are as you say. I don't particularly trust your sources.

once again, that is just a theory, it hasn't actually been tried with the actual weights of the blocks , and no you don't have to build the entire thing in two centuries or so, just show me that you can build a section of it

what, that the blocks were 200 tons at the Sphinx?

Earlier you said that the building a section of the pyramid wasn't proof that humzans could do it.

Like I can estimate in tons. Hey, a ton is a lot! They felt about the same weight, though.

what if you fill in the entire area with water first and then use the fact that the stones float to assemble them from the top down?

wrong, I said building a small-scale version of the pyramid (i.e. smaller and lighter blocks) is not good enough proof for me

stones float?

...but...they....used....the....same....size....blocks....

The pyramids were not built of pumice.

very small rocks

Or they used 200-ton Rock-In-A-Minute mix and poured it into place.

same size != same weight

try mercury for example

Geez, you folks need to improve your bait detectors.

no, it is not a mixture, it is lime-stone

wait a sec...
maybe it is actually styrofoam

Fine. Let me clarify, they used the same kind and size of stone. Deal with it.

what if they dehydrated the rocks first to make them lighter?

there is no water in them now, what are you talking about, if there was it would weigh even more!!

not if they dehydrate them

nope, not good enough, must be same size and weight and I will believe

how do you know there isn't any water in them?

aw2s just proved they do

Fine. Same size. Same material. I don't know if they were the same weight, you know those wacky big-stone physics laws.

hey, let me tell you guys all about cold fusion

well, if someone knows more about lime-stone (some geologist preferabbly), please speak out about it

if you add water to me I would weigh more, this doesn't mean I don't have water in me.

limestone
great with salt and tequilla

Big stone physics has something to do with relativity, right?

The faster you go, the rounder you get.

Hey, since Mars is red does that mean it's undergound red-shift?

what if they used really strong rock magnets?

i think they moved the stones because since they were so heavy, they were pulled together by gravity

I thought the Stones used an airplane to get from place to place?

Aliens built Keith Richards.

No, that's Jefferson's airplane.

I didn't mean that a heavier block defies the laws of physics to explain the use of pullies, I am saying the system has many different constraints besides man power, the pullies for instnace if they used it, and ramps are constraints that must be taken into consideration with different size blocks and how you arrange those ramps

A ha! Proof positive... "Jefferson Airplane" -> "Jefferson Starship"

I think I shall always remember "Big Stone Physics"
Sounds kinda like a rock band.

hmmmm

are magnets attracted to lime-stones? I don't think they are

much like Einstein's discovery of relativity, aw2s has discovered that friction affects really heavy things differently, because there's an extra factor that's usually "really kinda small"

Did he seriously believe the magnet message?!

maybe if it is a special type of magnet...

if manpower wasn't used, a possibility they said might be using sound waves to lift objects

Ahhhhh..... And consider the suspicious destruction of Grace Slick's home in the California brush fires...

Why should we believe that all of these "might be"s add up to "task is impossible without aliens"? It seems more logical to deduce that they add up to "task is possible for humans."

how many different types of magnets are out there?

I someone logging all this?
I hope.

SOUND WAVES?!?!?!?

no, is possible by humans only if they were more knowledgable and had greater technology than we do now, because we can't figure out now how they did it then

you can make something which attracts metal by passing a current through a wire wrapped around metal, maybe if you wrap the wire around a rock....

let's see,

there's "traditional" iron magnets
there's babe magnets
there's geek magnets

zzzzzip

goes the point of my argument.

I hope so...I gotta leave soon and don't want to miss anything.

ok, that is possible, but to do that, they had to have had electricity,which we are pretty sure they didn't have way back then

What about the "batteries" that have been found in Egyptian archaeological sites?

yeah...
they didn't have lightining either

hey, maybe they just set up lightning rods and waited for a storm to pass over the desert

Sure, they did. Ancient batteries have been found embedded in the mud in the Nile delta.

Wow, they just convinced him of the existence of a "stone magnet".

I am in awe.

Your total inability to tell joke physics from real argument does not bode well for your arguments.

         name:  Andrew Todd Weinstein 

  affiliation:  Junior, Math/Computer Science 



   login name:  aw2s 

I kind of like it....

maybe if they would wait for a lightening storm to provide the current?

he's in graphics with me

What about those pictures I've seen, taken at night, with eyes on the tops of the pyramids? How do you explain that?

that shows that possibly they were more advanced than what we originially thought, so we have to rewrite the history books as eithher they had this technology and it was destroyed or some e.t.'s came down and helped them out or built it themselves (I think a lost civilization is a lot more unlikely than e.t.'s)

OK, he bought the Nile batteries, what else can we sell

i dunno...
i think that they became the illuminati--just look at the dollar bill

the mummy's curse?

He's gotta be yanking our chain.
He can't be this dumb.

i think so, too...

Not really.. there's lots of information that ancient civilizations knew that has been lost. Imagine all the information from the library at Alexandria that was lost...

that reminds me
does anyone have the lyrics to "Plumb Dumb" by the Dead Milkmen online?

I don't know....anyone know him well enough to know?

that is an excellent point

I do now. ~ar2w/public/plum_dumb

Unless he's taking the charade to ridiculous lengths, letting his classwork suffer in the process, he really is.

(it's at cs.uwp.edu, also)

however, books were burned, but what happened to the things that they probably built all over the place if they were highly technological, where is the evidence of that besides little batteries here and there (which could have just been a chance of some chemical reaction in the area it was found

Yeah, nothing would ever be looted or broken after 4,500 years

or maybe they used biodegradable technology, they were thinking about our future, nice of them, huh?

Maybe they all went to Mars and are living in the pyramids and the face.

yes, but if they used electronics and metallic like things, there would definitely be at least part of it left around after that time, not everything gets destroyed in fires, etc.

I'm impressed :-)

maybe

although I doubt it because given the other information I have read about UFO's, that doesn't seem as likely as other hypothese

The batteries that we found don't exist?

I am listening to your side of the story, and it is not convincing me,

But I thought that aliens on earth a long time ago was more likely than ancient civilizations?

BTW, I snarfed all the mars pictures from that FTP site. There are 4 that show the face. 1 is unreadable (djpeg won't parse it); 2 are apparently from the same source. That leaves 2 distinct images (I think), and the sun is from the same direction in both. Higher in one than in the other, I think, although I'm trying to parse brightness contrast on a dithered image.

get from

ftp phoenix.oulu.fi 

/pub/ufo_and_space_pics 



marspyra.jpg 

phobufo.jpg 

I didn't say that the picutures on that ftp site are all the pictures that Viking produced of the region, if you want to see more , look at Hoagland's book

I've seen serious articles on the face thing, and they all only showed one image. I am very tempted to think that Hoagland is lying through his teeth.

and I said to check out more than just the face, the pyramid and the pyramid where the top seems to be off, it looks way too artificial

they have sun angles of other mysterious objects in the region, maybe not the face necessarily

and don't tell me that is a volcano with the top blown off, that is ridiculous

Now you're just bullshitting.

and I am not saying that every picture in that directory I believe to be valid, just a few

Why is the volcano theory ridiculous?

the others could be real also, but don't have any other evidence to pursue them

I'm only looking at the Mars pictures. If you think some of those are fakes, I have no sympathy on you.

well, first of all tell me that you know of a volcanoe that looks like that from high up in the sky, with such perfect edges

no, those pictures from Viking I believe are definitely real

besides the one you're talking about?

like I'm not totally bored making slides and wasting time

how do you explain that phobos picture? some malfunction created this huge bright object and then the system crashed? (don't give me this crap about Russians having bad technology, etc.)

I didn't get that one. "phobufo" didn't imply mars face to me, sorry.

Ever fly over Vesuvius?

ftp ftp.rutgers.edu

has some pictures of the Area 51 secret base I think in Nevada, check them out, very interesting how much security they put in that area

ftp.rutgers.edu, isn't that where the discordian and subgenius archives are?

no, phobufo is the picture of the UFO that the Russian probe encountered before it broke down, before it got a chance to go any closer to the moon phobos

just check out the pictures, ok?

Not ok. I don't have time to look over every theory *you* think is plausible. Especially since you believed that business about rock magnets.

I've seen the mars face pics Sure, it resembles a face
So does ;-)

yes, but what are the chances of seeing this "volcano" with perfect edges (which is unlikely) and then at least two other mysterious objects within just a 20 mile radius (the face and pyramid), the chances of them being artificial increase because of that

what are you talking about, theory of rock magnets, what he said was true

well you can't pass an electrical current through the rock anyway, so I considered that to be an option for a second, and then I canceled it right away because it sounded ridiculous, but using sonics is possible if you have a big enough device to lift it with the sound waves

I weep.

the pictures at rutgers are not UFO pictures, but relate to a secret government base where they fly these strange things, etc.

and could have some involvement with the E.T.'s to have this technology

I laugh.

well, how can you describe how humans could have moved the blocks at the Sphinx if it was proved that it was built before we thought it was, before the Egyptians or civilization was there? The only way you can use that argument is if you can show that there was a lost civilization, which you can't prove to me? So your theory of who put it there is almost as good as mine about E.T.'s, but not quite

Gee, Pat, I'd like to buy a carriage return?

(dated with knowledge of the errosion)

Oh is it pyramids again?

Pyramids suck. Huh huh huh.

did you know the UN has been discussing UFO's and possible government involvement?

who cares? Whoever build them is dead, so it's academic

Obviously a part of the global conspiracy.

just to let you know it has more attention than just Weekly News

A) We know of many ancient civilizations. We have records of some that were otherwise lost. There were some (eg Troy) that were lost for a while and then we found them. Assuming another is not much of a stretch.

B) I think the Egyptian pyramids were not built by some lost civilization. I think they were built by classical Egyptian civilization, like any farking history book will tell you.

how do you know they are dead? If they were E.T.'s then they can tell us about it if that species still exists and has been visiting us

Did you hear a space alien endorsed Clinton?
shook his hand and everything.

C) At this point, I am no longer taking you at all seriously, so you can stop paying attention to me if you like.

well maybe the E.T.'s who built it are dead, but knowledge could have easily been passed down to their E.T. children and they can tell us everything we want to know about it

ETs don't have children. They bud.

Gorsh, the Egyptions had beer and wine. How much more advanced can you get? All they were missing is coffee.

Um, how old are the pyramids? I think it not that likely that a life form can live that long.

nononono, ET's prefer Miller Lite. I saw it on TV.

Well as soon as they visit us (and I mean *really* bisit us, and not just farmers in Iowa) then I'll believe it.

I am not sure if they have children, they might have to use us or whatever for that purpose

Oh, they travel in near-lightspeed ships. It's only been a few weeks for them.

BTW, did I ever tell you about crop circles?

YES! Sexual abuse abductions!

if they were missing the coffee, then they were MORE advanced.

don't get me started with crop circles and the hoax theory, it just doesn't hold for all the crop circles

Wouldn't want to get him started. Oh no no no.

Ah, forgot about relativity. I withdraw my statement.

Sure, I'm an alien from a really advanced civilization. I can cover up every last trace of my visit to earth... except a really big dent in the grass where I landed. A-yup.

did these hoaxers leave some kind of electro-magnetic signature when they left? do you know what kind of equipment you need to do that? And they had the abililty to genetically alter the crops and not break the stems ?

Genetic alterations? Hey, that's new.

I didn't say they were trying to be that perfect in covering up, like I said before, slowly but surely, they are making their presence more known, and did you know that crop circles have been reported throughout history way before the hoax theory came about

"Electro-magnetic signature"? Oh, my. Given your vise-like grasp of physics, I'd be eager to hear you explain this one.

No, it's not. Actually, pretty common in crops. Yunz what didn't grow up in farm country wouldn't know about that. You plant a lot of something, statistics say that genetic variations, much like shit, will happen, eh?

no, it's not new, if you read anything about them

But that's not cool alien-spawned genetic alterations.
That's just stuff. You can't talk about that on TV.

yes, but will that happen in one nice circular area that happens to be pressed down with the stems unbroken and all the crops surrounding it are genetically normal?

there are reports of in many crop circles, radiation found in the crop circle

electro-magnetic radiation

ever consider that it could just be the military?

um..when last I checked, you can't have electro-magnetic radation "left" If it exists there is something currently creating it... (a moving magnetic field or an alternating current)

Hey, what about that wacky African tribe that when Western civilization contacted them, they already knew that Sirius had a companion star? And knew its period was 50 years? Even though you need a strong telescope to make it out?

possibly, but why would they need to land in people's backyards instead of secret bases in the middle of nowhere?

before I look like an idiot, is there such a thing as "electro- magnetic radiation"?

mutation occurs, turns out to be viable, spreads outwards geometric figure resulting from taking all points in a plane a fixed distance from some other point -> circle

radiation- naturally occurring, may well have made said mutation more likely to occur

pressed down- I did it

yes
that's what light is

well, there was some sort of radiation, possibly left behind by electro-magnetic forces

Electromagnetic radiation is light. No problem.

and UV, and radio , and IR, and microwaves, and...

Can we ignore the fact that I made up the bit about mutation the same way I made up the Nile river batteries and Dmitri made up rock magnets?

Good, I thought so.

the point is is that radiation was found in some of these circles (that were not hoaxes), so if they were hoaxers, then they would have to have gotten some radiation and carried it there if they were that moronic

"gotten some radiation and carried it there"

please elucidate

what do you mean about making up rock magnets? I have one here if you want to see it :-)

sure, you went walking around the field checking each crop with a genetic test until you find the spot where it has been spreasding around in a circle, a likely story

Did you know there are novelty shops which sell dictionaries that don't have the word "gullible" in them? I have one here if you want to see it.

how else could radiation signs be left there if they were hoaxers?

I know that but it wouldn't be "left behind".

No, really, I'm just verbally whacking off while a big compile runs, but at this point, I want a definition of, "got some radiation and carried it there"

Not a peep about the Fon / Sirius thing. I didn't make that up, actually (not that I believe it at face value)

Trivially, actually. Got any particular object that you want me to irradiate?

I guess from some place where radioactive material is left behind, like in your nearby New Jersey

("My" nearby New Jersey? When was it signed over to me? Is it too late to refuse it?)

I don't think these hoaxers would go so far as to risk carrying radiation there for their safety

I use "your" as a general term, not you specifically

"carrying radiation"
I'm still waiting.

I used to own a clock with radioactive glowing hands.

I said carrying radioactive material, what did you think I meant?

One company used to make brilliantly colored dishes by mixing uranium and cobalt into the ceramic.

Hell, even gatorade measures well-above background radiation.

I don't know *what* to expect from you.

true fact, BTW

You sodding did not. You said carrying "radiation".

and also some crop circles, you can place a compass in the middle of it and it spins around crazily as a result of electro-magnetic crap left behind

And I, in return, think that whoever said that is lying.

there is such a thing as electro-magnetic radiation

sure, whatever you say

Ah. I understand now. "Electro-magnetic" is a blanket term applied to any physical phenomenon you don't understand, i.e. most of them.

I told you I didn't take you seriously.
That tends to go for your sources, as well

We know that. We even know what it is. We have our doubts that you do.

no, we do know what it is, and you can detect it

And it doesn't affect compasses.

how else could it have been left behind besides a flying saucer landing there? Tell me how a hoaxer could have done that, in addition to the genetica altering, and no broken stems, burn marks

what the hell are you talking about? Yes it does, electro-magnetic, excuse me, but do you know what the word magnetic is doing in that word? Of course it can affect a compass

I don't usually leave burn marks when I step on grass Say, uh, what kind of crop circle doesn't have any broken stems?

No. You are, um, wrong.

Everytime I shine my flashlight on my compass, it spins and spins and spins

you are funny

Can I give up now?

(your life is at least)

No, really, I had to back up on this one. What kind of crop circle has no broken stems? What identifies it>?

Jim says:

I don't usually leave burn marks when I step on grass Say, uh, what kind of crop circle doesn't have any broken stems?

what is your point? I am asking you how a hoaxer could leave all of the properties I mentioned at the crop circle?

"Electro-magnetic radiation", you ueberdolt, is light, x-rays, gamma rays, UV, Infrared, Microwaves, radio, ELF, and a whole bunch of other stuff. By its very nature, it can't do dick to a compass.

Is this the impersonal "your" again?
Obviously, I have no life, if I'm involved in this discussion. No, wait, I changed mach_reserves.h and I'm still waiting for the recompile since about 2. This is much better than finding some random newsgroup... it's an interactive weenie.

Uh, I no longer nead a hoaxer. You have no crop circle.

there are some crop circles that you can tell are obvious hoaxes because some or most or all of the stems were broken in the process of leaving them in the state that they are left in,

Jim, his claim is that "real" crop circles have the plant bent down but not broken.

OK, we're back to this:

You have an area of land with a higher than normal rad count. On that land, genetically different plants are found, in a circular area.

well I forgot the exact thing left behind that they described, but it made the compass spin around, I still don't believe what you said that it can't do anything to a compass though

am i missing another war about existance of ETs?

linking mach_kernel... only a couple minutes to go for me

There are many physics majors here. Ask them if electromagnetic radiation can affect a compass.

(Other than melting it.)

In my country, we call that a magnet. It has many mystical properties.

correct, with burn marks on some of them and beautiful, perfect swirling of the crops forming the circle

wait, before you said, "No burn marks."

Ya got me. If I aimed a sufficiently powerful laser at the compass, I could vaprize it. Electromagnetic radiation is light. That's it.

well, there the radiation left behind can obviously be detected and has at some crop circles, disregard the compass reaction to some of them for now

I'm still trying to get a handle on non-bogus crop circles. So now we add the property that they are all bent down, but not broken, in a swirling, circular pattern, right?

It's all just millenial fever. They'll all go away after 2001 comes and goes and the world doesn't end.

makeboot is running

no, I never said that

never said what?

md

about the burn marks

I said some have burn marks

oops, did I forget to mention that while lying horizontally on the ground, these stems miraculously keep growing horizontally

Did I mention how to bend nitinol?

the ones that the hoaxers claimed to have been made, the crops do not keep growing horizontally

Well, that's all the time we have today, but try again next time that Jim has a long compile and nothing else to read. Losers on this afternoon's show can still enjoy playing our home game though.

damn, gotta go

Whew. It's like having Salsman in your own home.

so...anyone with free time going to post it?

I have a log. I guess I will.

damn, I missed something good by punting discuss, didn't I?

Part 1 : Rock Magnets | Part 2: Conspiracy | Part 3: Reverse Engineering